Experience loss revamp request thread.

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Ithaedam
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:34 am

Experience loss revamp request thread.

Post by Ithaedam » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:27 pm

Ok since ive seen so many people talk about this all over the forum lets bring all our voices together for this. You cant just be all negative nancy and come out with your f bombs swinging like a giant ball sac ok? The devs have to get feedback thats of a positive nature. Have you ever had someone ask you to re-do something cause you did it wrong the first time. If they were rude about asking would you be more or less inclinded to re-do the job. This isn't so different. A dev is gonna see you complaining in that rude way and they will laugh and be like "good, maybe ass hats like you will leave."

So here is my example of good feedback for a positive change.

Dear devs,

My characters name is KellDran, i am level 26 and have gotten there by only exploiting the one recent bug no one was really aware of (overbuffed chars) Now even with that going on there are only two groups of mobs that could really not hurt you. And you couldnt really start them until at least level 10. Probably later now. Anyways over my 26 levels the amount of exp ive lost compared to that needed for reaching said level is immense. I would probably be at least level 30 by now if some things about exp loss were changed. You will witness here, at least 5 players (i hope more) that have had similar cases as mine.

Cases i mention are like if we are staying at a spawn and everything is running smooth, they are not swarming you or surrounding you. Then a player runs past, not even near your group, but they either run mobs into you, or spawn too many or spawn the wrong enemy, maybe a stronger one. Ive died way too many times cause of player interference as far as that goes.

Not to mention that at level 20, people of similar level don't give a shit if they are outlaw, only a 1/5th of the players can really do anything to them. They will kill other players for 1 of 3 reasons. Reason 1: pure enjoyment... some trolls around here like to kill people merely cause they find it funny to think about how mad the person just got and they cant do anything about it. Reason 2: i dont know if you still get exp from killing people (non outlaws) but if i lose exp from an outlaw killing, i should gain SOMETHING for my efforts in protecting my life. Otherwise there is a real unfair balance where outlaws will wait til they have opportune moments to kill people, and we waste time and more exp trying to kill them to stop them from killing us. So that needs to find a solution or it will kill a big part of the community. Reason 3: the clan your in messed with the wrong person. Im so sick of getting killed by other clan members just cause they got beef with my leader. Cant enjoy a game mechanic (being part of a clan) without losing hard earned progress and being pushed out of normal farming spots. Also i am tired of losing HOURS of invested time when i could be wasting it on some other game or actually doing something with my life. But no i spend it here...... a game i am enjoying very much. I want to continue to ebjoy this game as i have probably been more into this game than many others ive played.

Ask anyone, ill bet every player has sacrificed at least 2 hours of sleep once a week, playing this game. Thats a bare minimum! I know ive only went to sleeping 5 or 6 hours to play more. To reach that higher level, you must make sacrifices. But i dont want to do that if a player can take away all of that in mere minutes or less.

Right now the exp loss is 20%.... thats steep, if it wasnt based on a percentage you would have to start over a level every 5 deaths. Thats not very fair when you include all the factors that allow you to die. So my suggestion is to have a debuff, a death debuff. If you die youll get a debuff, it reduces gained exp by 10% for an hour or some limited time. If while this debuff is active we die again, then we lose 10% of gained exp.... so lets take numbers into this. Ill use Rotters since they are pretty well known and easy exp. Rotters give 600 exp a kill. Now when you start needing a million exp to lvl how many rotters is that? 1,000,000 ÷ 600 equals roughly 1667 rotters to level 1 time. 20% of 1 million is 200,000 which is 334 rotters needed. Now ive found spots to spawn at least 10-20 at a time for 3-5 minutes of killing and occasionally more spawn. Its a lot more difficult now than it was but doable if you have 30+ dex and the best dodge gear. I still can only use melee though to be able to dodge their attacks, if i use ranged i die. So at 10 to 20 rotters every lets say 2 minutes. Roughly two hours to get back the lost exp back with numbers provided, thats if i dont die again. Now lets put my consideration in this equation. You die and are debuffed, rotters now give 540 exp (10% being 60 of 600) and if you die again aftet that you lose 100k exp. If someone is still dieing a lot itll take a lot less exp from people and if they dont want to lose exp they will let the debuff fade out, or buy an item to remove debuff. Im sure there are other options but this is my suggestion. And thats just with Rotters, not to mention the lower mobs that give less than half the exp.... so just something to consider please devs.

Another suggestion, remove exp loss from pvp. Players can use exploits to kill other players before we have a chance to do anything. So until you have pvp and skills working 100% take off the exp loss due to player kills. We will still lose precious items when killed but wont be pissed off that theres a player killing us that we cant beat. So please just remove it from any player vs player related deaths. If someone has no exp to lose they wont care about going around and ruining other peoples day that have spent ALL DAY to get where they are on xp.

Now everyone else voice your opinions, without blowing up at the devs, you can be vulgar but talking bad on them isnt how we are going to get changes. Only use harsh language for emphasis. Lets see if we can make this happen for all of us that are tired of losing time invested. Cause honestly time is the only real valuable resource in life. Im taking away from time with my family when im in this game, cause of exp loss i cant look away for fear of 1 thing changing and my character dying. Im sure im not the only one that does this. So please listen to what we have to say devs.
Last edited by Ithaedam on Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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BlitzCraig
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Re: Experience loss revamp request thread.

Post by BlitzCraig » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:52 pm

I'm not a dev, just to be clear ;)

There is some internal discussion about this topic as well,and I thought it'd be appropriate to bring it here. First, I'm personally in favor of reducing the xp loss. However, I think the timed debuff idea mostly promotes sitting around afk (as I've seen from other games) or isn't steep enough "penalty" from death.... but before we get into details, I think we can establish 2 very different types of death in OV. First is death from your survival needs (thirst, hunger, sickness, radiation) much of the game is based on these, and if there is little or no death penalty, then there is little or no reason to care about this entire aspect of the game. In short, I think we'd do a great disservice to the game (and ourselves as players) if we minimize too much this part of OV, because having this too low ultimately reduces game-play enjoyment. The second type of death is losing all health. (you could argue to split this between pvp and pve, but I'm not going to do that right now lol) I think this is the sudden, many things out of your control can kill me type of death that is causing too high XP loss. Having this too high causes players to go about our days "playing it safe" to an extent that we miss out on much of the game. In short, it ultimately reduces game-play enjoyment.

So our recommendation at this point, is to change death to the following penalties:

If you die from losing all your health, cut XP reduction in half (for now) to 10%. When you die this way, you respawn with full health, but your survival stats are not reset.

If you die from survival stat failure, you lose 25% XP.

This should help keep the game unique and interesting, while greatly helping to build our characters and advance.

feel free to discuss ;)

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Hamjam
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Re: Experience loss revamp request thread.

Post by Hamjam » Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:59 pm

Image



Bwahahah. Seriously though I like your idea of maybe bumping the PVP exp loss till the kinks are worked out is an awesome idea. I am not nearly as high level and still feel like the grind can get tedious after a few unfortunate deaths. 20% seems a bit harsh, although it does not affect you that much until you are passing lvl 15. Maybe a tiered system to make random death and loss of literally a day or more worth of exp grinding not such a common occurrence? Maybe the percentage drops as you reach certain level milestones?

I don't presume to have an easy answer for this and I would assume the devs are looking into it. Constructive criticism is key here I think you so eloquently put it. Lets keep the ideas coming and less grief about how it inconvenienced your gaming life.....seriously......lol.


Edited since I left a url in there on accident.
Last edited by Hamjam on Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:34 pm, edited 3 times in total.
"The world is a cold and brutal place. Yet there is glory to be had out there in wasteland."

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Ithaedam
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:34 am

Re: Experience loss revamp request thread.

Post by Ithaedam » Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:10 pm

BlitzCraig wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:52 pm
I'm not a dev, just to be clear ;)

There is some internal discussion about this topic as well,and I thought it'd be appropriate to bring it here. First, I'm personally in favor of reducing the xp loss. However, I think the timed debuff idea mostly promotes sitting around afk (as I've seen from other games) or isn't steep enough "penalty" from death.... but before we get into details, I think we can establish 2 very different types of death in OV. First is death from your survival needs (thirst, hunger, sickness, radiation) much of the game is based on these, and if there is little or no death penalty, then there is little or no reason to care about this entire aspect of the game. In short, I think we'd do a great disservice to the game (and ourselves as players) if we minimize too much this part of OV, because having this too low ultimately reduces game-play enjoyment. The second type of death is losing all health. (you could argue to split this between pvp and pve, but I'm not going to do that right now lol) I think this is the sudden, many things out of your control can kill me type of death that is causing too high XP loss. Having this too high causes players to go about our days "playing it safe" to an extent that we miss out on much of the game. In short, it ultimately reduces game-play enjoyment.

So our recommendation at this point, is to change death to the following penalties:

If you die from losing all your health, cut XP reduction in half (for now) to 10%. When you die this way, you respawn with full health, but your survival stats are not reset.

If you die from survival stat failure, you lose 25% XP.

This should help keep the game unique and interesting, while greatly helping to build our characters and advance.

feel free to discuss ;)
I can agree with trying to not kill the game, but blitz i dont agree with when you die your survival stats stay the same, maybe reduce by half, simply because reduing radiation is costly and not the easiet task, even at a high level looking for ingredients to make rad flush and survive isnt feasible. By the time i make one, Sickness and radiation buildup is big while reduction of these parameters is small. I get sicker trying to get rid of radiation, while losing health and hunger and thirst. I feel like if we took your idea of seperating deaths but keeping xp loss of 20 not an increase. Make dying by hp loss either 10% or incremental, so those that try to keep dying by doing the same thing lose more and more until they change tactic, but with a cap of 25% so maybe 5% incrementally.

Another suggestion could be have a skill that reduces exp loss by a specified amount, maybe acquired at level 20 or 30? This could help with the higher numbers losing more exp. Just another idea.

Haha ham that was a funny pic

Ryaca
Posts: 156
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:19 pm

Re: Experience loss revamp request thread.

Post by Ryaca » Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:17 pm

I really like this discussion. Some very good points here.

Ithaedam
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:34 am

Re: Experience loss revamp request thread.

Post by Ithaedam » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:28 am

Edited a few typos and added a couple words so it all made more sense.

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ThreeDog
Posts: 24
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Re: Experience loss revamp request thread.

Post by ThreeDog » Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:38 pm

BlitzCraig wrote:
Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:52 pm
I'm not a dev, just to be clear ;)

There is some internal discussion about this topic as well,and I thought it'd be appropriate to bring it here. First, I'm personally in favor of reducing the xp loss. However, I think the timed debuff idea mostly promotes sitting around afk (as I've seen from other games) or isn't steep enough "penalty" from death.... but before we get into details, I think we can establish 2 very different types of death in OV. First is death from your survival needs (thirst, hunger, sickness, radiation) much of the game is based on these, and if there is little or no death penalty, then there is little or no reason to care about this entire aspect of the game. In short, I think we'd do a great disservice to the game (and ourselves as players) if we minimize too much this part of OV, because having this too low ultimately reduces game-play enjoyment. The second type of death is losing all health. (you could argue to split this between pvp and pve, but I'm not going to do that right now lol) I think this is the sudden, many things out of your control can kill me type of death that is causing too high XP loss. Having this too high causes players to go about our days "playing it safe" to an extent that we miss out on much of the game. In short, it ultimately reduces game-play enjoyment.

So our recommendation at this point, is to change death to the following penalties:

If you die from losing all your health, cut XP reduction in half (for now) to 10%. When you die this way, you respawn with full health, but your survival stats are not reset.

If you die from survival stat failure, you lose 25% XP.

This should help keep the game unique and interesting, while greatly helping to build our characters and advance.

feel free to discuss ;)
While I agree with this on many ways because believe me I absolutely love survival,people could purpously die from health loss just to get a smaller xp loss so this has a bit of a hole in it too,this whole subject is very interesting and a bit of a slipperly slope because in the many ways were looking at this there are a lot of holes and im sure if we all pitch in we can figure out a major Idea here I hope this thread stays alive so we can achieve that,my 2 cents on the subject is I think the percentage should be the same but we should have new stats in the game such as survival capability and equipment reduction,survival capability would lower 10 percent upon every death but for every 5 minutes you survive it raises by one percent survival capability at high levels will reduce xp loss upon death and make scavenging easier(searching and ripping cloth or something would have higher chances) by having this here people would try to keep this stat up so they dont lose 20 percent on death and get bonus benefits,possibley upping poison resistance getting used to wasteland food and stats increasing slightly(such as crit chance or damage to knowing the critical parts of a body now that your more attuned to wasteland survival) and I think at extremely high levels it can go to the point of giving you slight xp boosts (10-20 percent max) this would require surviving for hours without dying,and for the xp reducing gear I believe that extremely high end gear has very slight xp reduction(perfect leather coat 6 armor -4 dodge -4 walk speed 1 percent xp reduction,
This could also be a chance for the tire mask to do something other then give a little dodge X3 I was dissapointed with the stats after seeing that boss design)
So max xp reduction could be about 3 percent on an item,it should also be designed to the point were you dont get xp upon death because that could be exploited so the stats would need to be looked into carefully,this is my idea.
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BlitzCraig
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Re: Experience loss revamp request thread.

Post by BlitzCraig » Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:24 am

To be clear about the suggestion you quoted, choosing to die from health loss wouldn't help circumvent the need to maintain survival bars, because you'd respawn with your survival bars at the same percentage they were before you died ;)

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ThreeDog
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Re: Experience loss revamp request thread.

Post by ThreeDog » Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:50 am

What if someone dies by health loss and has 99 water percent dies then comes back and dies again almost instantly for this scenario this man did not die on purpouse,that would be about a 35 percent reduction(i know xp bars change upon deaths but thats still really bad especially for higher levels)
Its Three Dog Commin at ya live from the D.C Hellhole...ain't life grand (User:Threeedog)
Clan:MOB (The Mafia) Position:The Don

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BlitzCraig
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Re: Experience loss revamp request thread.

Post by BlitzCraig » Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:33 am

imo if you die from "survival failure", you deserve a huge penalty - and overall, what percentage of deaths are from survival failure if you're actually trying? like 10% maybe tops?

so if that's the case, then after 10 deaths with the current system, you've lost about 1 level (assuming deaths average at halfway to level) - with my suggestion, those same ten deaths would be around half a level

please note, I'm not pretending like I'm "right" and you're "wrong" - this is a place for different ideas and conversation (support and debate) about those ideas ;)

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